Day 7, Part 7: Democrats question witnesses on evidence in impeachment inquiry Day 7, Part 7: Democrats question witnesses on evidence in impeachment inquiryThe gentleman gentleman time is expired will now proceed to the first round of questions and his point of order. We’Ve been told and that’s why he didn’t have to comply with the rules of decorum and now he’s sitting up here in the middle of State appointment pursuant to house resolution 660 into company Judiciary Committee procedures. They will be 45 minutes of questions conducted by the chairman of majority Council, followed by 45 minutes by the ranking member Tannerite Council. Only the chair and ranking member, their respective councils. My question. chance says questions. I not recognize myself for the first round of questions. The Republican, the Republicans expert witness last week because satterlee wrote in an article that quote there is no a public office for personal gain, is an impeachable offense, including the withholding investigative committee’s Supply, increasing pressure on the president of Ukraine. Yes, it did in fact present Ukraine’s Public Announcement of the investigations that President Trump sought and did. The evidence demonstrates that President Trump undermined sixth President Trump policy supporting anti-corruption reform and the rule of law in Ukraine and undermined US National Security, and then the evidence also show the President Trump compromised: the National Security of the United States. Yes, in fact, the fact 7sed by withholding vital military Social Security to advance his personal political interest, evidence prove that President Trump engage in a scheme to cover up his conduct and obstruct Congressional investigators from the outside. Back nine. It says using the power of the Office of the President and exercising his authority over the Executive Branch, President Trump ordered and implemented a campaign to conceal his conduct in the public and frustrate and UPS truck House of Representatives impeachment inquiry. Finally, the Constitution last week that the president’s conduct for Ukraine and Pat, who are free and fair elections, has proved that President Trump was a threat to our elections. Yesterday, urging that the president will continue to use the power of his office for his first political gain. For his personal political gain, close quote, I would ask in the next election for additional questioning two chairmen experienced investigator. Would you agree that is relevant to look at evidence bearing on the present state of mind that may help explain the president’s actions the evidence of microphone free that Joe Biden was a leading Democratic Contender. Prison believe believe it is too early as part of your inquiry. Did you determine whether President Trump in July 25th, and how many times did you know President Trump tweet tweeted about former Vice President Joe Biden over 25 times between January and July 25th? Those tweets did you look at how many times Trump mention Vice President Biden in a speech rally with President Trump, I think it’s pretty difficult to draw too many conclusions from his tweets or his statement Rally’s mr. chicken. The rules question appropriate. I have not heard a point of order. The gentleman is just a 2.44. step of the committee gentleman gentleman is presenting his opinions as a witness he supposed to present the material handling in the report. You’Re. Not the gentleman is mr. Burke’s time pursuant to missed the point of order. This we go by President. It is unprecedented for a person who’s come and sit with who you’ve described his witness to then return to the bench, and the gentleman has been designated by me to do this. Questioning pursuant to rule 6, 6 6, a house resolution 660, which is the rules of the Soliloquy and the gentleman absurd the month before the July 25th, call on June 21st. Okay, did you find it? You look at that in your investigation as part of the intended on the July 25th. Now scissoring is obviously running for re-election. What is it, what is the dating announced? His intent to run for re-election indicated he’s going to run, as I sit here today with the corruption investigation of former Vice President Joe Biden, yes or no sir, would you agree with that principal slightly disagree with the with the predicate, with with the premise of your Question because I have a question the question gentleman whether the question question is why regular slime in a call transcript, the president was not asking for a personal favor. He was speaking on behalf of the American people eat. He said and I’ll read it. I’D like you to find out what happened with the whole situation in Ukraine, they say crowdstrike. I guess you have one of your wealthy people. So I’m not asking you to read that. Let me let me if you want to talk about the transcript reference to bind. So you see on the July 25th call on page for is it the fact that President Trump and is called present salinsky Define stop the prosecution of correct? He said he stop the prosecution he’s entitled to answer question. The former VP. He was at the Council on Foreign Relations, and it was a little bit of a former. Vp was a little bit of sin and how he describes you went over to the it says. The other thing there’s a lot of talk about biting son and that Biden stop the prosecution says that correct. That’S what it says. He goes on to say President Trump past presidents dolinsky. If you can look into it correct if you can look into it, that’s what it says. So President Trump was asking Ukrainian president selenski to have the Ukrainian officials look into correct supports that it doesn’t say. Can you look into it? President Trump is not asking a federal prosecutor president salinsky, to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden. I don’t think there’s any other way to read the words on the page, then, to conclude that Castor, you made the appointment investigator investigator transmitted presentation. President Trump did not go further until president’s Alinsky that he wanted. The investigation announced to help his 20/20 that President Trump has acted, corruptly wrongfully using his power that it was unlikely. He was going to confess to present dolinsky that he was asking for the investigation explicitly. Computer has never have a defendant or a someone, who’s engaging in misconduct who would ever explicitly say in this case president selenski, I’m going to bribe you now or I’m going to ask for a bribe, or I am now going to extort you. That’S not the way. These things work. Thank you, 2014 correct. Yes, President Trump supported Ukraine with Aidan, otherwise, in both 28 2017-2018 correct. What is an incorrect? Did. President Trump did not raise anything about Hunter Biden and his father Vice President Joe Biden in 2017 or 2018. He only did it. The year before his election in 2020, when both he and Vice President Joe Biden, isn’t it true, sir, I think what happens is the president solve this video of the former VP and I think it’s fine jittery didn’t mean. That is not something that we looked at. This video is pretty recipient and work in the Trump Administration correct. If he had a reaction to the correct reaction, he said. I immediately went to John Eisenberg, the lead legal counsel. He said it is in proper for the president United States to demand a foreign government investigate a US citizen and a political opponent, testimony correct yes or no, yes, but you said it presents as if things are clear, but they’re not clear, absolutely correct, and you also Worked on you or personally said work on The Minority Report correct to be accurate in The Minority Report that you worked on. Was it important to be fair to witnesses to be accurate about what they said? Was it important to the American people but Jennifer Williams? Now she was a special advisor to bike to vice-president Pence on Europe and Russia Affairs that correct that that President Trump was trying to do something for political purposes. Witnesses in the impeachment angry, I think, have revised their views. After after the the call transcript came out and in whistleblower complaint was released, are you calling? Are you saying she was predetermined to impeach? I didn’t say that, let you know what the question about Jennifer Williams. Never mentioned anything to anybody in the vice-president’s office in route to Warsaw, when the vice president was going to be with presidential potential issue concerned that she articulated during the course of the deposition and during the course of the hearing. Was he in look at your report when you wrote to the report about this way, and so we could put up slide six. Please answer you made the same point that you tried to make two to Discount her testimony. You said she testified that, although she found the call to be unusual, she did not. She did not raise concerns to her supervisor, walk in the door for her deposition. Okay, I’m in here for 9 hours in the bunker. So she said a lot about the concert that was you and I’m happy to read it. Jennifer Williams testified that quote. Although she found the call to be unusual quote, she did not end a quote. She did not raise concerns to her supervisor, isn’t a factor that Miss Williams said more than that and see what is being put in in support of what you’re trying to do. We can’t do that without being able to see it or read it. Mr. Gates has said that so that we can see or hear, but he is referring to your, not letting that happen, and that goes to the Privileges of the members, but the check you are anemic. I appreciate the accommodation it’s B chord on usual and nothing more. Let’S look at it when a is: isn’t that correct, sir, that’s what she said and you left out the inappropriate Parts in a block quote the American people in describing what Miss William said. As you were in describing any everything else in your report. Thomas Williams, public testimony at 34, she said quote: I thought that the references to specific individuals and investigation, such as former Vice President Biden and his son struck me as political in nature, given that former vice president is a political opponent of the president. So you left that out of your staff report to didn’t you Miss Williams, if you’re telling me I did, I mean I don’t I don’t know what that’s it here right now is that Center she said it was unusual and inappropriate and of a political nature. Cuz. It raised vice president, the vice-president who she recognized was a political opponent of the president turn off show from lieutenant general report. You believe that was in Harley proper to say that Miss Williams found the call to be unusual when in fact, she found the car would be unusual and inappropriate and the president we describes what McWilliams sir you and that he’s badgering the witness because he’s the original Point of order, Bouchard comported with everybody else’s rules. I will say that sharp cross-examination of a witness border to border under resolution 660 we’re supposed to follow the federal Rules of Evidence, is that right? What is it? Where’S the list of rules and let me put up slide 9 of Mr Morrison’s testimony on page 38 of his public testimony and Mr Morrison said question by mr. Goldman. You heard the call you recognize that President Trump was not discussing the talking points that the NFC had prepared based on official US policy and was instead talking about the Chin’s that Fiona Hill had warned you about, and then you reported it immediately to the NFC legal Advisor is that the correct claim events here in mr. Morrison said that’s correct earlier before your presentation, we showed the testimony of Miss Hill, where she referred to. What prison Trump was trying to do is running a domestic political Aaron. Is that what you understand is that what you intended to him? Yes, it was about those two specific investigations. The President Trump ultimately did discuss and ask president selenski to do. These are the same two investigations that were discussed and we’re the only two investigations where at issue throughout the entirety of the scheme. Until what are evidence found was that anytime, there was a reference to investigations. It reference the Biden investigation in the 2016 election investigation actually said that whenever he was saying using the term corruption, what he meant was those specific two investigations and what was the significance? He said that he understood these were the investigations that Fiona Hill had warned him about, warned him about. What did you understand that to mean when dr. Hill left and Tim Morrison replaced her? They had transition meetings during one of those transition meetings? Doctor Hill told him Morrison about a what she believed to be this: a regular channel that Ambassador Sunland was operating where they were pushing for Ukraine to do these investigations in Doctor Who very concerned because she said, as you pointed out, that was a domestic political Erin And what she was working on in the National Security Council was working on related to National Security and foreign policy, and those were two entirely separate. And when she expressing The View that President Trump had chose his own personal political interest over the foreign policy positions that Miss Hill was trying to pursue to Morrison, she was not aware of whether a President Trump had actually endorsed these investigations. But she did testified that after she read the call transcript, would she only read after it was released like the rest of us, she said that she put two and two together and realize that that is exactly he was talking and what was 2 in equals 4 And what is this investigation? Sir security assistance had been withheld was being withheld from Ukraine and based on all of the various factors and their direct involvement in issues related to Ukraine. They concluded that the security assistance was being with him, how to put pressure and as a condition on the initiation of the two investigations that are referenced here. Let me ask you, sir, you said I be able to look like he’s been able to cross at some point of inquiry. The gentlemen will continue when they should be seeking information, and then you said that the Trump Administration has in fact cooperated and facilitated Congressional oversight. Investigations call Sir Robert Blair, Robert Blair who’s on this. I think he was allowed to come if agency Council. He was not allowed to come under the term set by the house intelligence committee, correct agency counsel. If agency Council Grove expensive Hamburg is it, he may have been able to come with agency Council, but he presents some complexities and he’s the chief legal advisor for Ambassador Bolton. So he was directed not to come correct testimony. Does percent complexities you’re reading a little too much into you know some of the eight lines. I don’t think the president was requesting an investigation into into Joe Biden, you’re presuming that invented. Some point became US policy to investigate Joe Biden, and I don’t think that’s the case. Sir. Let me show you: what’s plaid 10 testimony and he was at. Are you aware of any written product from the National Security Council suggesting that investigations in the 2020 election? The are part of the official policy United States vote. If we could go to slide 11, Mr Morrison was a spy Congressman. Swalwell was also on in the intelligence committee and said just going to pick up in the middle of that long question. It said you listen to of the United States priorities. Priorities were to investigate the bidens, and I’m asking you, sir, why didn’t you follow up on the president’s priorities when you talk to the Ukraine ukrainians? Mr Morrison said sir, I did not understand it as a policy objective. Mr. Goldman, let me ask you: there was a package prepared before that call of what President Trump was supposed to talk about with the prayer with President dolinsky correct and talk about it was in his prepared remarks, anti-corruption platform, a president ran and won on consistent and Persistent policy objective for United States did President Trump mention corruption to anything other than the investigation that were politically helpful to him. The 2016 election investigation and investigation arrival former Vice President Joe Biden, mine, is the question. Isn’T he can ask the questions whenever you want and any question you have the same rules and mr. Castor and she’ll be at you’ll, be able to answer questions when it’s their turn Trump talks about very bad people. If I can finish – and that was let me finish her – let me let me ask you this, sir sir we’ve heard testimony her test went already missed your Trump said to presidential. It president President Trump said the president solinsky that he should speak to two people. His personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, bar correct immediately after this call memorandum was released. Isn’T it the case that attorney general Barr in the Department of Justice issued a statement about his role in all this? Let’S put out the statement. Slide. 13. Please Department of Justice. The president has not spoken with the attorney general about having you investigate anything relating to former Vice President Biden or his son. The president has not, as the Attorney General, to contact Ukraine on this or any other matter. The attorney general has not communicated with Ukraine on this or any other subject where to stay at the Attorney. General didn’t want anything to do with these investigations that President Trump had raised with a present solinsky on. The call is in addition to the fact that the Attorney General said he had nothing to do with Ukraine and in fact there were no ongoing investigations. At the time of this call, or in August became an issue in the investigation. There is a formal channel that the Department of Justice has the United States government has to obtain evidence related to an ongoing investigation to engage a foreign country through treaties to get in information. But several of the witnesses testified that they looked into that at the urging of the ukrainians and they determined that there was no formal, ongoing investigation nor any form of Quest on these topics. The other lawyer, however, he was more than happy to continue to be involved in trying to get Ukraine to investigate president trumps political rival, Joe Biden, correct mr. Giuliani, was very active and involved in pushing for these investigations for several months before the July 25th call, and Then, for a couple, several months after including apparently three days ago and answer degree, you wrote in your report that Rudy Giuliani that the ukrainians themselves knew that Rudy Giuliani. The president’s personal lawyer was a conduit to convince President Trump of that presents. Lindsay was a serious ukrainians. Do this, you have your report here, and it says that your cranium knew that he many Rudy Giuliani was a conduit to convince President Trump that presents Wednesday was serious about reform. In fact, during the call President Trump as president zielinski to speak directly to his personal lawyer about Ukrainian matters, that President Trump was interested in correct, yes and in fact prisons look, he said all we already knew that and he’s been in touch with my Aid. Correct. That’S right, it was a conduit to the president and if they made mr. Giuliani happy, they make, for the presidential Ambassador Volker testified that Mr Giuliani had a negative impression of Ukraine and he was possibly fueling the presidents, and so they had. There was some discussions about. If you can convince Rudy that presents the real deal, that would be beneficial. Beneficial link was pushing for the ukrainians to investigate. Like former Vice President Joe Biden answered no, is meeting in July 19th. Brighten, the article says I’ll read it mr. Giuliani, and this is dated – May 9th 2019. Before the call, mr. Giuliani said, he plans to travel the key of the Ukrainian capital in the coming days and wants to meet with the nation’s president-elect urge him to pursue enquiries at the end, then it continues that allies of the White House of intense interest to Mr. Trump, the special counsel investigation goes on to describe it new sends the other is the involvement of former Vice President Joe Biden, son, okay and now that was in the New York Times article and we talked about the breakfast. If we cannot yet if we can continue the rest of the article to the next slide, which is a slide 17, the same article and mr. Giuliani was very explicit, I’m now you quoting the words that are highlighted, says I’ll, be very, very helpful to my client. My only client is the president. United States he’s the one. I have an obligation to report to him what happened regarding the Ukraine. Now that same day, Mr Giuliani gave an interview about what he intended to do in. Let’S go to slide 18. This is from rear. Real RealClearPolitics and it should be in the screen in front of you as well, and what Eastwood mr. Giuliani bad about Ukraine. He said. It’S a big story, it’s a dramatic story and I guarantee you, Joe Biden, will not get to election day without this being investigated. Not because I want to see him investigated, the clouds to what I was election day refers to the 2020 election. Will President Trump will be running against will be running for re-election, Council resident, says, he’s being interviewed out the same day and a Politico and he’s ass about mr. Giuliani he’s leaving soon. I think in the next couple days. Mr. Trump says I see well, I will speak to him about before he leaves 25th president in this one. It’S actually a tweet that he put out on June 21st, 2019, roughly a month before the call he says new president of Ukraine still silent on investigations. Ukrainian interference in 2016 election and allege fighting bribery of the prior president and president and against. As you said, the ukrainians knew that mr. Giuliani had the year of his client President Trump. Isn’T that correct, sir, that correct sir? Yes or no, you know out here and then became involved with the official Channel, with both her with silence and at that meeting on July 19th against the prospective Giuliani. So my question to you is that referring to a personal political issue of President Trump or official US policy, that’s it that’s a personal political issue and up, if you don’t mind I’ll, just take a moment to respond to mr. Castro, because please do that July 19th. Meeting between Ambassador voelker and Rudy Giuliani, Giuliani, that the is about Joe Biden were completely bogus and wrong, and mr. Giuliani actually told, according to Ambassador volkers testimony. Mr Giuliani said that he knew that and yet for the next two months he continued to push for investigation at the direction of President Trump, who had also directed president selenski to contact Mr Giuliani, so that on May 23rd, when the official folks who went to the Inauguration of President, since he came back to tell the president who helped and press they were, the only thing he had to say to them was talked to Rudy. He was taking his official government people responsible, Krave and handing them over to Rudy Giuliani so that they could work with him for the issues that he was focused on for the president as evidence in the Tweet is that fair, acted and delegated authority over Ukraine matters To Ambassador song, voelker and secretary Perry and told them to work and then over the next three months, that’s exactly what happened at the president’s Direction by the 22. If I make that you understood the ukrainians recognize how important Rudy Giuliani was and satisfying him in order to stay on good terms with President Trump from their own internal conversations. Cuz mr. Giuliani had back channels to getting to to the Ukrainian officials and Ambassador Volker told ukrainians as well that there was. This quote the factor that president zelenski president selenski, this Giuliani factor that they needed to deal with with the president August 13th, which is obviously after the July 25th call thank you for meeting and you’re clear and very logical Position will be great meet with you before My departure and discuss, I feel it, the key for many things is Rudy and I’m ready talk to him with him at any point, please let me know when you can meet Audrey any of this stickler, but I believe this text was actually – and this was a Critical text, because what it is saying is mister, requested to Ambassador Volker to meet, to set up a meeting with Mr Giuliani and then ultimately further evidence of the meticulous investigation that chairmanship and his staff with you direct it. We will stand corrected, thank you and I will take that and ask for the record reflect that that that is the correct date and I’ve either case. Rudy was key whenever it was said. Certainly not. Let me ask her. Let me put up slide 24 and mr. Goldman. Am I correct that there came a point in time when President Trump, through his chief of staff, that your mobile Mick Mulvaney ordered that the approved military aid to Ukraine be withheld? As you previously indicated correct – and this is the testimony of the people who were involved – Kent said when this happened – there was great confusion among the rest of us cuz. We didn’t understand why that it happened, since there was unanimity that this Aid was in our national interest. It just surprised us all as their homes and then you had the additional hold with no explanation whatsoever, and we still have an explanation and we still have don’t have an explanation for why that happened or in the way that happened, Miss Croft. The only reason given was that the order came in the direction of the president, so let me ask question: did all the agencies involved believe that the age of a given? Yes, it was the unanimous view of all of the agencies. Secretary State Department of State Department of Defense, National Security Council, literally every one of the inter-agency agencies that believed that the aid was vital and had already been approved and should be released immediately in the minority staff report. And then mr. casters testimony earlier. He said the US government did not convey the Ukrainian mister songland, according to Mr songlines affidavit, and testimony ultimately convey that the release of the aide was conditioned on the amount Public Announcement of the investigations. Well, if I may just didn’t respond Ambassador song than the President Trump’s ambassador to the European Union that he swore to under penalties of perjury, and he says if we read the highlighted, which is also in front of you. I now recall, speaking individually with Mr your Mac, where I said that, where I said I miss you, your Mac to Ukrainian Aid, that I’m going back to the quote that resumption of USA would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public, Auntie Krups and statement that We have been discussing for many weeks is that corrects her meeting on September 1st with mr. in Warsaw. Let me put up a slide that we put together slide 27, and you recall, sir, that and the draft statement that the ukrainians, we’re going to have presents zielinski. Give so they could that statement on their mind? Did a white house meeting and satisfy President Trump and have the aid released also testified to that and then was at Rudy Giuliani, who said in the second one that it had to include a reference that they were going to investigate very small and the 2016 election? That’S right: did the witnesses say that so every single witness said after reading the phone call on July 25th that it was clear, Barista equaled Biden, that they were one in the same, there were only two witnesses who said that they did not know that until that Time and ample testimony there’s a lot of testimony from people involved in all aspects of Ukraine policy who indicated that it was completely unrealistic and unlikely that anyone did not that the Barista investigation related to the Biden’s Giuliani publicly referred to it off in his briefs button. Vice President Biden crack us Democratic politics by helping President Trump’s re-election campaign. By making such a statement, they had reservations about engaging in US domestic politics. That’S right there. I want to go back to work after you said that when President Trump said the Mr saw Ambassador song on September 17th that he had no pro quo. You said he had no reason. You said 9th September 9th. You said he had no reason to be any less than candid. That’S what you said. No reason be any less than candid. Let me show you what happened, though, on September, let me show you slide 52 days before he made that statement. The Washington Post turn it up an article that says Trump tries to force Ukraine to meddle in the 2020 elections and goes on to describe some of those efforts, and let me show you where the no quid pro quo as a defense, let me show you a Tweet by President Trump on slide 53, now and again, this is that is essentially saying the Democrats, based of following up the article that they are pursuing impeachment again showing awareness that this has now been reported on. Pastor said that mr. Trump President Trump had no reason to be any less than candid about as ambassador set, even when he, even if you credit, Ambassador silence version of the testimony which is contradicted by other Witnesses who took contemporaneous notes and art were far more credible Than just for Sunland, who had to amend his testimony a couple times, he said he’d that comment he said out of the blue without without any question about whether or not there was a quid pro quo. House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler and Democratic staff counsel Barry Berke questioned the witnesses, House Intelligence Committee senior adviser and director of investigations Daniel Goldman and senior investigative counsel Stephen Castor, about the Democratic and Republican impeachment inquiry reports.
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